Again, you still dont understand, the one story house is $12B, not $100M. Magnitudes is hardly even the right term, its just the closest we can get. Someone having $12B is not the actual functional issue with society either. The issue is someone having hundreds of billions of dollars.

Ill be willing to debate the ethics of wealth between $13M and $12B once we solve the actual problem that is fucking up everyone’s lives. I personally dont think anyone needs so much money at all, but that isnt the point. The point is what can we actually do to make the system a base level of economically sustainable, otherwise we will be guaranteed to never see a day when it becomes ethical. Its about rationality in pursuit of ethics, not demanding pure ethics from any possible solution

Im not debating the granularity of anything, I’m stating a fact that you don’t seem to understand about the gravity of someone having $430B versus $12B versus $100M.

Would you say there is “granularity” in comparing a 36 story skyscraper to a 1 story house? They are inarguably 2 completely different magnitudes of building.

Im being very clear and very honest, by simple plain math someone having $100M is not affecting your life in any way. Literally people make this whole idea of “the 1% have us all turned against each other with culture wars” which is almost all the way correct. The reality is that a handful of fucking people have everyone distracted, and that even the separation between you and someone with $100M is a petty class war from those 250 people’s perspective. People with hundreds of millions are not this evil monster that are any different from you, they hardly have any more money than you in comparison to a multi-billionaire. That is just factual, plain, and honest. Whether you want to accept it is a different story

To be quite honest, I had a similar perspective to you for a long time, until I ended up working directly for people with that level of wealth.

For one, theyre people just like you and I, quite frankly. Sure, they float through life rarely having to concern themselves with the problems normal people have and can be called selfish I suppose. Although to be fair to them, many are philanthropic, but either way: thats pretty much what all working class Americans also do. Yeah sure we have problems ourselves, but we also largely ignore the impact that us having it better off comes at the cost of other people. And honestly people with a shitload of money have no shortage of problems themselves. Rarely do they seem well adjusted. Many of them end up in marriages young, trying to crank out kids, because inheritance is often tied to number of children. Like again, boo hoo when people are literally not able to afford food. But still, theyre just people like you and I.

More importantly, they care about their money more than almost anything else. Its not even “appealing” to them IMO so much as the point is to make it plainly obvious to them that the system is unsustainable. If we dont pay people enough to afford cost of living then their businesses will fail to find customers, the resort communities they love to visit or have second homes in will implode on themselves, whatever major metro they live in will follow, and really having whatever amount of money they have will be meaningless. Were at a tipping point where a non-insignificant amount of people are buying groceries on Klarna to survive, the tourism industry is taking a $20B hit, and they could probably lose most of the benefits of their wealth without doing something. If anything Im appealing specifically to their selfishness, and Im fine with their selfishness if it means we can end the selfishness of the richest 250 people. Because that, by the numbers, is the driving economic issue in the world. Money was made to move

I definitely agree the majority of people have to want it, which is why I want the tent as large as possible, and the message as simple as possible

I could have sworn this dude got married in Aspen and spent $600M on it. They shutdown the airport for it even because of all the private traffic

How many times are they tying the knot?

If poptarts are ravioli, but also a sandwich, does that mean that all ravioli are sandwiches from the ingredient/structural rebel perspective?

I understand what you are saying now, in putting it that way.

I’ll ask a simple question, in your opinion, how is unfettered capitalism in the US hypothetically less exploitative of the rest of the world, the global south, etc, than having moderated capitalism? I do not understand that perspective. Especially in that the US adopting moderated capitalism would hopefully push the world in that direction more largely, given our, admittedly highly imperial, influence?

I would like to better understand why the current system is somehow less exploitative in your view. I would think at worst one could say they would be equally exploitative

Part of the entire point is that $12B is 36x less of a problem than people having Musk level wealth. Like the existence of billionaires in and of themselves is not that crippling based on the total wealth in the world, but yes I would love to see them taxed appropriately for sure.

Having a cap on wealth at such a ludicrously high point means that virtually no one in the 1% will even need be concerned about it, as they will probably never make it to $12B. Again, there are over 3k billionaires in the world, but only 250 of them have over $12B. But those people hold virtually all the money. 6 of them have well over half the money in the entire world.

The point of putting it where it is is to make the tent as big as is possible. I completely agree $1B is more than anyone could ever need or use, but that shrinks the tent and also threatens the sensitivities of some hundred millionaires. We need those people to ever actually make this a success. We all know congress is bought and paid for. Thats the only way anything will ever change

If you think imperialism was “starting to form” in the 19th century then you have a shit ton of learning to do about imperialism my guy.

I also studied US imperialism nearly exclusively, in university as a fundamental part of my undergrad.

I dont discount the importance of recognizing imperialism, or deny that things are vastly more complex than my highly simplified argument makes it out to be. But its also inarguable that wages around the world are limited significantly by whatever American wages are. We would be exploiting the world to a far less significant degree if our country did not so viciously exploit its own workers. More money in the hands of consumers is more money flowing out and raising wages and standards of living everywhere else just as it does here. Especially at the increased level of movement we are hypothesizing about. And then shit will come down to a million complex interactions happening everywhere around the world. But regardless, we will be sending out far more money that currently is doing literally nothing for anybody

[email protected]

Come join us if you’re interested!

If it was this size but thinner I wouldnt even mind. Although slightly longer and skinnier would be better.

Over $400 is a ridiculous price point though and makes the whole thing a non-starter. I get that its a minimalist product and inherently not going to be the most popular thing, therefore priced accordingly, but its OS barely looks better than a mid 2000s palm pilot

deleted by creator

https://eml.berkeley.edu/~saez/

Emmanuel Saez has a lot of interesting work I am still looking through, but here is a collection for anyone interested. His work primarily focuses on designing/analyzing public policy initiatives, especially to tackle wealth inequality and create a more equitable taxation system

I genuinely live in an area where I can at least try to do something to get the attention of 1% type people. Thats my goal, hopefully in conjunction with other local people. Even if its as simple as having QR code stickers directing to the community around town to start. I figure the name is provocative enough in practically being an oxymoron

The community at large obviously is mostly for discussion of wealth inequality, and also ideas for stuff we could do locally would be great if anyone thinks of anything.

Also, IMO, capping net worth at $12B is hardly communism. If anything its capitalism with the bumper guards up

Thank you! Its been stuck on my mind for a long time, but especially the past week.

Shameless plug for a new community I have just started to discuss this problem: [email protected]

If you have any good articles or videos on wealth inequality we would love to see them over here. Anyone who wants to dive into this more deeply please join us

Our entire economic system, and the world along with it, are doomed to fail if we dont move the money that billionaires have been squatting on. All the exploitation and poverty that exists in the world can be tied to billionaires parking money that should be moving through the hands of Americans and out to the rest of the world.

Ive recently started looking into just where our money went. Although we all know the answer inherently, I suppose moreso I have been trying to more acutely visualize how it has been taken away.

The median income today is roughly equivalent to the median income of 1958, so if you are just looking at raw inflation you might think people are paid on par with the value of money in 1958. The reality is that inflation does a piss poor job of showing you the whole story.

In 1958 the median household could afford everything that was needed for a family of four and then some. The 2% richest income bracket in 1958 made only $15k or more, equating to an income of around $170k today. There was only 1 billionaire at the time, J Paul Getty, who was the richest man in the world and worth the equivalent of $12B today.

Flash forward to today, the median is at a nearly inflationary equivalent point, but appx. $75k a year is hardly enough for 1 individual to live comfortably, let alone an entire family of four. This means that 50% of all households are well below what it costs for one person to have healthy finances in 2025. It also means that the richest 2% of households in 1958 would hardly be able to afford a comfortable cost of living of a family of four in 2025 (about 170k at its cheapest).

If that isnt a ridiculous enough statistic to show you how viciously American wages have stagnated in favor of making the rich even richer, then consider this: In 1958 child laborers were paid $1 per hour, the minimum wage at the time. Assuming that child worked 40 hours in a week, they would have made a little over $2k in the year. Relative to the GDP of the united states at the time (about $480B) that would equate to making over $1M per year today. Therefore, everyone currently making less than $1M per year (pretty much everybody) has less buying power than the average 10 year old child laborer in 1958.

With this in mind, its easier to see how inflation doesnt tell the whole story. That $1 minimum wage might equate to $12 today, which is higher than the federal minimum wage, and the state minimum in about 25 states. But even if the minimum wage were brought on par with that base metric (which again was considered the appropriate wage for literal children), a person making $12 would have absolutely no buying power relative to a minimum wage earner back then.

To put it further in perspective, a household earning the median income of $5k back in the day would be the GDP-relative equivalent of making over $40M per year in 2025, even though it would be the inflationary equivalent of earning less than $75k a year.

Now, Im not an economist whatsoever. Im just a guy. And im sure there are some methodological issues with looking at wage strength relative to GDP for serious purposes. But I think doing so makes it pretty clear that we have hardly a fraction of the buying power of the average American back then. Where did all that money go? Into the bank accounts of billionaires.

Going back to Getty, the first billionaire, would have had the equivalent of an unfathomable $12B today. Elon Musk has $433B just himself. He is 36x richer than how rich Getty ever was. He is not alone up there either. In total, the US today has 812 more billionaires than we had in 1958. If we capped all wealth at $12B, or the equivalent of Getty’s wealth back then, then every billionaire in the US would still have $1B-$12B, and we could immediately move the excess $5T that they have collectively been sitting on. US worker wages could be raised to a point which meets actual cost of living. Wages around the world could finally rise in step, ending crushing poverty that plagues the globe.

Even if we pegged modern billionaires to the same level of wealth relative to GDP as Getty, who was 1/481B, then no one would be allowed to be worth over $62B today.

The wool has collectively been pulled over our eyes for nearly 100 years. We have been pushed to accept the bare minimum that they could get away with, while they stuff their pockets for no functional reason. A game of numbers that creates limitless suffering around the world for the benefit of no one. All so they can feel good looking at their estimated worth in Forbes magazine. We dont deserve this, the people of the world dont deserve this. And the whole world is gonna go tits up if we dont fix it. The existence of the 0.01% comes at the cost of the rest of humanity. The next time you cant afford child care, healthcare, or even your groceries, remember where your money is. Its in their accounts

Im surprised PBS would take the time to make anything seem more exciting than it is, considering their broadcasting is normally about as exciting as watching a wet paper bag flap in the wind. They make CSPAN look lively by comparison

Senator Chris Murphy, the party’s top member on the DHS appropriations subcommittee, said that, “Trump’s DHS is spending like drunken sailors,” adding, “They cannot invent money. They cannot print money. They don’t have the money to spend that they’re spending,” as quoted in the report.

I would question how exactly ICE alone are already $1B over budget if they have no authorization to spend money beyond their budget. Or assumedly not spend $1B beyond the budget… Hows that work?

Also, obligatory “fuck you” to the economic times for trying to not let me copy text

Sounds like it causes tonsillitis. Ive had tonsillitis twice, never had them removed, and it feels like getting stabbed in the throat every single time that you swallow. You dont realize how often you swallow until that happens